Fruitfulness w/ Toby Sumpter - Ep 1

Stuart Amidon (00:00.63) What's up, guys? Welcome to the first episode of the Tactics Podcast. I'm hanging out with Pastor Toby Sumpter. Toby, thank you so much for giving us your time this morning to start us off on this inaugural episode. I'm excited, man. I'm great to be here with you again. So, Pastor Toby, pastors, King's Cross in Moscow, Idaho. Pastor Toby, how long have you been there? Toby Sumpter (00:10.164) Absolutely. Toby Sumpter (00:21.644) I came to Moscow, Idaho in 1998 for New St. Andrew's College. So I left for a couple of years in the middle, 06 to 08 to go to a seminary and do a master's degree. And then I came right back. But I've been here for about, I don't know, 25 years. Stuart Amidon (00:39.819) it was the stark, wintry cold that brought you back, right? That was what kept you coming. I see you wearing your jacket today. So we're talking, the mission of the Tactics Conference is to unite Christians in the Gulf South to build the kingdom of Christ, to pull in the same direction together. So that's what our large overarching goal is going to be here today. And you came and spoke at our inaugural conference, which I'm Toby Sumpter (00:43.244) Yeah, I know. Stuart Amidon (01:06.135) very grateful for. You're coming back in 2025 to talk again. Again, very grateful for that. One of the things, Toby, that causes me to pay attention to what you do in your life is how fruitful you are. You have a lot of things going on. And so, one of the goals of my conversation here today is to, first off, try to glean some of that for myself, straight up real talk, but also pass that on to others who will be listening. I think it's very important that we would be striving to have fruitful, productive lives for the kingdom of Christ, and I think that one of the biggest things that's in opposition to that today is that Jesus' people, for lack of a better expression, seem to be by and large lazy in generally speaking, kind of across the country. We haven't been able to get our feet underneath us and get the work done because it seems like we're not...we're not... doing the work yet. I remember an interview that you had with David Bodson where you said something similar to that, and it's kind of stuck with me since then. So you've got...you're pastoring a church, okay? You've got cross -politik, which has, you know, I'm sure that locks up several hours of your week, if not days. You write a ton. I see new blogs from you drop regularly throughout the week. You're writing and publishing books. You're doing video interviews like this one. What is your productivity philosophy? Like what drives you to get that much done? Cause my initial thought is there's gotta be something underneath this. There's gotta be a motivator there that makes you want to be that fruitful. Toby Sumpter (02:52.752) Yeah, well, it is. It is insane when you sort of zoom out and you look at everything and you think, wow, that was a lot. But I think really the the if I could summarize what I think sort of if I can call it the secret sauce or whatever it is, I think it's actually basically staying. Stuart Amidon (03:05.07) this a lot. Toby Sumpter (03:22.316) faithful in the little things. So I think, I suspect that, I agree with you, I think we have a problem with laziness as a culture, and I think we have a problem with laziness in the church, and I think we have a problem with laziness in ministry. And I think, my suspicion is that is because we are not faithful in the little things. Jesus actually said, if you're faithful in the little things, you'll be faithful in the big things. And what I mean by that is I mean, I'm talking about faithful daily diligence in Bible reading. I'm talking about faithful daily diligence in confession of sin and forgiveness with your wife. I'm talking about daily faithful diligence of dinner with your family. That's happy. Stuart Amidon (03:50.606) Yes. Toby Sumpter (04:20.14) I'm talking about, um, uh, day, you know, weekly diligence in Sabbath keeping weekly diligence in worshiping with God's people. Um, so, but what happens though is, is, um, and all of us have this, uh, men, especially we all want to do great things. And, and, and so we all have this instinct where we're like, yeah, I'm going to run a marathon and. Stuart Amidon (04:47.278) Hmm. Hmm. Toby Sumpter (04:48.108) And like that would be awesome. And everyone, like we love glory and we love achievements and we love success. And you just picture the finish line, crossing the finish line, the glory, you know, the pictures, the awards, the accolades, whatever, which is okay because God actually has wired men especially to be that way. We love glory, we love achievements. But then, but what we don't do is we don't then say, okay, now we've got to break this down. If... most of us go out tomorrow and just try to run 26 miles, we will die. And, and, and so you have to now break this down into bite sized pieces and you have to figure out, okay, and you know, you can find the app online, I'm told that, you know, preparing for an American in the next six months of like next four months. Yeah, exactly. But, but what I want to say is I think that's a Stuart Amidon (05:24.046) Right. Right. Yeah. Stuart Amidon (05:38.734) Oh yeah, the couch to five case kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, I gotcha, I gotcha. Toby Sumpter (05:45.412) microcosm for productivity everywhere. And what that means is that you you have, there's daily things you're doing, and weekly things you're doing, that then basically they they multiply, they, they snowball. And then and and I would say those key things really are what I just what I just said, I would just say, daily Bible reading. If you want to be a productive Christian godly man, Stuart Amidon (05:49.388) Hmm. Toby Sumpter (06:14.444) You have to make that a priority. And it has to be something that is just non -negotiable. And it's gonna happen. You're gonna be in the Word. You're gonna spend the time in the Word. Have a plan. Don't be random. And I would say the overarching goal really should be read the whole Bible over and over again. And if you can... read the whole Bible in a year, read the Bible every year. In 10 years, you should have read it at least 10 times. If you can read it twice in a year, then in the next 10 years, you can read it 20 times. But you need to be just cranking through every day in the Word. And with that, obviously also in prayer, if you have access to the Lord of the universe, then why are you not talking to Him? every day about everything. And I think having at least some designated time that and I think it fits often to as you're reading the word, the word is going to be working on you. And there's going to be things, you know, catching you up short reminding you of things that you forgot about. And so pray word, but but do that every day. And see that as like, that's those are your push ups in your sit ups, man. That's your daily faithfulness. That's orienting your whole day. I think most, I don't know, you know, God doesn't say you have to do it first thing in the morning, but I find that it is really key first thing in the morning. I get my coffee and I get my Bible. Then I said, I mentioned earlier, confession of sin and forgiveness, I think is continuing to be, the thing that people don't realize that sin, Sin ruins everything. And that's just facts. But really very practically, it gets in the way of productivity. Because instead of having like really like free space in your head to think, joy in your heart that like keeps you going, and then just time. Now you've got... Stuart Amidon (08:13.04) Amen. Yes. Stuart Amidon (08:21.572) Hmm. Toby Sumpter (08:39.136) guilty conscience, you've got, you know, that that that just the gunk of just feeling, ah, because you had that argument with your wife, and you didn't sort it out, or you had some crosswords with one of your sons or your daughters, and now it's not sorted out. And now that's in your head. And, and you're trying to concentrate on work, but now you're it keeps coming back to you like, but why did she say that? Or why did he say that? Or why did I say that? And it's eating at you. Stuart Amidon (08:40.846) Hmm. Stuart Amidon (08:49.584) Yes. Yeah. Stuart Amidon (09:06.096) Mm -hmm. Right. Toby Sumpter (09:09.1) Well, now your productivity level just dropped significantly, even if you're trying to sort of shove it out of your head and it's in your heart, it's weighing you down. Psalm 32 says that when you kept silent and you didn't confess your sin, it's like being in the desert. It makes your bones ache. It's what makes, it brings depression and you can't be productive in that state. So, not only is confession of sin and forgiveness the right thing to do, Stuart Amidon (09:13.072) Right. Stuart Amidon (09:23.888) Yes. Toby Sumpter (09:38.86) It's the good thing to do. It's the most productive thing to do it. It's it's like making sure that your your house is swept your your it's like making sure that the laundry is getting done the garbage is getting taken out so that your your your most your maximally poised for whatever God has for you and then I would say specifically in your home especially like your marriage and your kids I mean, this is your basic unit. This is where Stuart Amidon (09:47.47) Hmm. Toby Sumpter (10:08.924) Either you're thriving there, which is then freeing you to pour your energy and time into productive pursuits, your work, your job, maybe you're starting another job on the side. Maybe you need to carve out time on the weekends to have a side hustle. Well, if your family's thriving, then you will find that you actually have more time. But if it's not, Stuart Amidon (10:26.061) Hmm. Stuart Amidon (10:33.231) Yeah, yes, that's right. Toby Sumpter (10:37.9) it's going to come back and bite you and it's going to eat at your time. And so you've got to put first things first. Make, make sure you have, um, you keep short accounts. Um, that means no, no, um, no sin, um, no secret sins in your heart or your life. No sins between you and your wife, no sins between you and the kids. You're in fellowship, no laundry lists of resentment or bitterness, nothing rotting behind the refrigerator or under a carpet or in a closet somewhere. It's all clean. You're in fellowship, you're in the joy of the Lord. And then I mentioned, you know, happy dinners. You know, while the kids were little, you know, I mean, we still have dinner almost every night of the week together. Now my kids are starting to leave, and so they're not always all there. But even as a pastor early on, part of this was the gift of our community and our culture. Just we don't do a lot of... Stuart Amidon (11:15.632) Yeah. Toby Sumpter (11:37.234) You know, once you get later in teen years and sports and stuff, there's more evening activities. But in general, our church functions that we don't fill our week up with a lot of church stuff. And so I've been a pastor since 2006. So, you know, coming up on 20 years, 18 years, whatever that is. And yeah, but it's a rare evening I have a church meeting. Stuart Amidon (11:48.4) Mm -hmm. Stuart Amidon (11:59.311) Congratulations. Toby Sumpter (12:07.468) And it's been that way for 20 years, you know, where, you know, I occasionally have had one night of the week that I've said, you know, I'm going to visit people on that one night of the week, one night, but I'm, I'm home, you know, for years and years, I've been home four and five nights a week. And usually five, you know, usually six to seven. And, and that's been a huge gift. And what that was though was, um, little faithfulness, creating joy in my home, which then built up the kind of relationships where if I need to pull, you know, if I've got a writing deadline and I've got to disappear for two days, my family's great. Like, like, like it's gonna be a party. Dad's gone, we're gonna have a party. And, you know, and, you know, Stuart Amidon (12:54.767) Yeah, yeah. Toby Sumpter (13:02.22) I like my, like they literally like, it's funny, when I'm gone, like when I went to down to hang out with you guys in Lafayette and Appaloosa, like the tradition when dad is gone is they all get mint chocolate chip ice cream, because I don't think we should flavor our ice cream with toothpaste. But the rest of my family, the rest of my family loves it. But that's not, that didn't happen magically or automatically. Stuart Amidon (13:10.349) Yeah. Toby Sumpter (13:31.468) Like the joy of our family culture happened because I was sitting down at dinner with my family every night. And we told stories, we told jokes, we laughed together. And you know, when they're little and squirrely, yeah, there's also like, you've got to eat your peas and okay, there's going to be discipline. And you know, I mean, we did the normal stuff and you know, somebody wets their pants and another person, you know, decides to stand up on the table. I mean, we had all the normal. Stuart Amidon (13:50.83) Sure. Toby Sumpter (14:01.516) all the normal rodeo stuff, but we were, you know, we were dealing with it joyfully, slowly, but it's daily faithfulness, little by little, little by little. But the thing that we need to see is that's training for the marathon. And so all the things I'm doing have been, I didn't do them all right away. They were slow and I picked away at it a little bit by little bit as I had time to. Stuart Amidon (14:15.758) Mmm. Mm -hmm. Stuart Amidon (14:23.438) Right. Right. Toby Sumpter (14:30.398) around these non -negotiables. I'm going to be in the Word. I'm going to have a good relationship with my wife. I'm going to have a happy family. I'm going to be at church every Lord's Day. And then you have certain things you just got to do to function, pay the bills. And then you just, you fit stuff in where you can, but over time, little faithfulness multiplies and it snowballs and it turns into more time and more energy and more momentum. Stuart Amidon (14:43.904) Yeah. Yeah. Toby Sumpter (14:59.34) than you ever thought was possible. Stuart Amidon (15:01.199) Yes, I got you. So then, let me ask you this way. So the marathons that you do run, okay? How far out are you planning those? Like when you're saying, I'm gonna write a book on whatever, you know, or I've got a new sermon series coming up that I'm trying to get ready. How far out ahead do you try to keep yourself to be able to plan well to run those marathons when they come? Like, are we talking months or is it a year? How do you do that? Toby Sumpter (15:30.412) Yes, I would say probably the best ones, like, you know, so like, use books as an example. The ones that I think go the best were ones that really were in the works for years, even though I don't know if I necessarily had thought in my head when I started it, this is a book. But let me give you a couple of examples. So my marriage book, No Mere Mortals, grew out of, Stuart Amidon (15:51.598) Oh yeah, uh huh. Toby Sumpter (16:00.172) doing pre -marital counseling for like 10 years. And so early on, we live in a college community. There's a whole lot of young people getting married and I do, you know, I don't know, six or eight weddings every summer. And so I found myself starting to do pre -marital counseling a lot and I had all these couples coming and honestly, part of it was a practical need. I couldn't remember what I'd covered. Stuart Amidon (16:17.842) Nice. Toby Sumpter (16:29.996) because it was like, this was the fourth couple coming in to see me. And I'm like, did I tell you about this yet? And, and, and so what I did was I just, I just basically reduced it all down to three basic sessions. And I, and so there's session one, session two, session three, and then I just have my secretary market on the calendar. Is this one, two or three, or I just asked, you know, and, and then I, yeah. Stuart Amidon (16:53.337) How many times have we met? Toby Sumpter (16:56.076) Well, it was like, yeah, it's too many. I can't remember. I have about more than eight rows. But over the years, I started doing those three sessions and they've like morphed slightly, but I basically just have like, I just know the curriculum in my head. I know the texts I go to, I know the stories I tell, I know the illustrations I'm gonna use. And that became the core of my marriage book. And then I filled it out a whole bunch and I'd been doing a bunch of other just routine. marriage maintenance meeting and you know, those kinds of things. And couples would occasionally come in with things they wanted to work on. But I would say that book, that was the easiest one to write because I had been giving those talks for probably 10 years. Stuart Amidon (17:37.295) Yeah. And see, this goes back to what you were talking about before, like it's the big rocks, you know, you keep your main priorities, so you're being faithful, doing pastoral ministry, and out of that, it's not like you sat down and you said, you know what, I would like to publish a book, you know, although I'm sure that drive is there, just like we talked about before, it's in a lot of men's heads. It's more of, I'm being faithful here, and then this grew into something. Oh, look, I think we can... we can publish this, maybe it'll be helpful for other people. Right? Am I tracking with you here? Toby Sumpter (18:08.682) Absolutely. And I would say so other similar things would be a lot of my writing has also begun as teaching lessons. So related to the premarital counseling, I would say I also teach regularly, some in church, but also some in our local classical Christian school. And, and then what I've done there is you just, and all that is, is once a week or twice a week, I have a, have a class period and I have to prepare a talk. And so I just write out, Stuart Amidon (18:18.832) Hmm. Toby Sumpter (18:38.092) you know, maybe one page of notes, save it. And then I come back the next year, pull up the notes again, and maybe I add a paragraph or two, fill it out a little bit more, deliver it, close it. But each week I've got to come back and teach another lesson. And if you do that, if you do that over the course of a year, you've just written your curriculum. And then if you, and then if you want, you've got those, all those lessons. And I will occasionally grab one of those lessons out and maybe, Stuart Amidon (18:45.293) Mm. Stuart Amidon (18:53.679) Yeah. Stuart Amidon (18:57.679) Right. Right. Toby Sumpter (19:06.06) turn it into a sermon if I think it's a topic that I need to cover in my church, or I'll pull one of those lessons out and I'll turn it into a conference talk. And I'll, I'll go down to tactics con and I'll give that, that, you know, that talk. You know, or, and the same thing with other, and then I'll do it also in reverse. Well, sometimes I, I'm asked to give a talk at a conference and I think that was a real, that was really great. And I'll remember that and I'll give that as a sermon. Stuart Amidon (19:09.903) Hmm. Stuart Amidon (19:13.616) Yes. Stuart Amidon (19:18.416) Let's go. Toby Sumpter (19:35.564) Or maybe I'll decide to give that as a seminar or a class. And then I'll, maybe I'll take a portion of that and turn it into a blog post or an article. But you're, I, what I'm trying to do is, um, hopefully that, uh, you know, hopefully what I'm doing is useful and hopefully it's helpful. And then you good teachers repeat themselves. Um, this is what Paul says is it's not, it's not a problem for me to repeat myself. It's, you know, I'm happy to do it and it's really safe for you. Um, Stuart Amidon (19:42.447) Mmm. Yeah. Stuart Amidon (19:51.279) Yeah. Yeah. Stuart Amidon (19:57.231) Right. Right. Yes. Toby Sumpter (20:05.632) repetition is the mother of memory. And, and that's, you know, of course, one of the fundamental things that the book of Deuteronomy is all about. Remember, remember, remember, don't forget, don't forget, don't forget. And so, so that yeah, a lot of I try to cross purpose, a lot of my teaching and writing and preaching and Stuart Amidon (20:30.352) Right. Yeah, you're not going from zero in every category. Right. Toby Sumpter (20:34.174) exactly, exactly. And you know, so my, my, the project I'm just starting, I mean, I have I have one book I'm finishing up that was a little bit more from scratch. And so it was a little bit more like, you know, couch to 5k. For me, a little bit more scattershot stuff. But the book I'm just starting to work on now is going to be on parenting. And, and it's another one of those things where I've been giving parenting seminars, Stuart Amidon (20:50.063) Right, right. Toby Sumpter (21:02.828) And I did a, you know, a Canon plus, um, you know, a little video seminar and I give, and I give sermon series on parenting every year or two at my church. And so that's going to be a lot more like the marriage book where I've, I already basically have it in my head and I would just, now I'm just finding an hour a week and every, and every week I'm going to just put an hour into it. And I, I already, I've taught on it so much. I know what comes next. Stuart Amidon (21:07.953) Yeah, I remember that. Stuart Amidon (21:31.731) Yeah, well let's talk about, sorry to interrupt you, but let's talk about that. So you just said, I found an hour in my week. How do you do that? So like, is there a particular methodology that you're utilizing to structure your weeks as you kind of like plan out what you're about to do? Like what do you do? Toby Sumpter (21:32.492) And but go ahead. No. Toby Sumpter (21:44.364) Yeah. Toby Sumpter (21:53.484) Yeah. So, I mean, I just use Google Calendar, nothing fancy. And my secretary and pastoral assistants also have access to it. And so they can help me with scheduling meetings. But basically, I would say primarily what I've done is I've nailed a few non -negotiables down. Again, same principle that we talked about before. Stuart Amidon (22:08.722) Mm -hmm. Stuart Amidon (22:19.089) Mm -hmm. Stuart Amidon (22:22.482) Right. Right. Toby Sumpter (22:23.116) just now within my, you know, I'm here at the office roughly eight to five, Monday to Friday. I just follow a pretty normal work schedule. And then what I've got nailed down would be I teach some classes. I mentioned the Logos school classes, that's just built in. I teach a preaching class for our pastoral students once a week, that's nailed in. I have a few, you know, board meetings, an elder meeting. My elders, we meet once a week on Monday afternoons from four to five. And that's just nailed in. And then there's a once a month elder meeting with Christ Church that I attend. And that's on Thursday mornings. And then Wednesday, Wednesday morning is my sermon prep day. And that's blocked off from 8 a .m. to lunchtime, basically. those four hours. And then I have about six or seven set slots for folks in the church to make appointments with me and their preset on my calendar. And so my assistant can just, I don't know the technology, but maybe you do, but he sends them a link that shows them that particular calendar that overlays on top of my own calendar. Stuart Amidon (23:34.066) Oh yeah, okay. Toby Sumpter (23:51.82) and they can click on one of those appointment slots and then just write their name in and save. And then it shows up on my calendar as this spot has been taken by, you know, Joe Smith. And so six or seven of those, and I would say, so that's, you know, maybe if you nail all those non -negotiables down, that's maybe a half to two thirds of a, you know, a 40 hour week. And, Stuart Amidon (23:56.306) Let's knock it out. Yeah. Toby Sumpter (24:20.076) And so there's actually still a fair bit of time. There's still blocks in there. Now, you know, then you mentioned cross -politics. So there's, that's another thing. My elders have graciously included that as part of my ministry. And so they want me doing cross -politic and that kind of cultural engagement. And so there's about three hours on Monday afternoon blocked out for that and about, three or four hours on Tuesday morning, blocked out for that. So that's almost a day, one day's worth in a normal week, just broken into two days. And then I would say basically from there, what I've tried to do, and I've done it, I would say I've had seasons where I've done it better or worse, but then I do try to actually designate hours where I'm gonna focus on a particular project. And I just do it as an... Stuart Amidon (25:15.282) I understand. Yeah, then you just plug it into your calendar. Toby Sumpter (25:18.316) Yeah, and I just put it in my calendar, but I just and I try to. And again, you know, emergencies happen or, you you get going on one thing and all of a sudden you realize, oh, I missed that. Your personal deadlines and personal goals are harder to to keep to. But but I do have slots designated for particular writing projects or I'm like my. goal currently is to try to be writing one blog post a week. And then I've got a couple of writing project book projects that I'm just, I've got one hour a week that I'm just trying to pick, pick away at. And, and then, you know, you just always have the other things that pop up, but I would say that's how that's how I've run it. And it is generally worked. Stuart Amidon (26:08.721) Yeah, that sounds great. Stuart Amidon (26:12.691) So here's the million dollar question right here. How do you keep from getting distracted? Right? And sometimes it's good distractions, sometimes it's bad ones. You know, I think that we were talking at the very beginning of this, one of the things that we struggle with as a people is inherently laziness. You know, that's just part of the world that we live in right now, part of the fall. But also... Toby Sumpter (26:20.938) Yeah. Stuart Amidon (26:37.523) it's easy for people to become distracted in the culture in which we live. You know, anywhere that there's electronics, a screen, you know, a phone or something like that, it's easy for you to get pulled aside. What have you done personally to be able to say, hey, I've got this hour and I'm going to keep it for this. You know, I'm not going to let myself get tossed around inside of this. What do you, is there some mechanisms that you've implemented for yourself in order to kind of hold onto that? Toby Sumpter (27:03.116) Yeah, I would say, yeah, there are. One would be actually, it may not be, it's not like a one -to -one connection, but I do believe that the more thoroughly I have, the better I start every day, the better the day goes. And so when I start and I get up and I do my Bible reading and I don't just check the box, but I really have like spent my time there. Stuart Amidon (27:19.826) Hmm. Yes. Toby Sumpter (27:32.062) focusing on the word, feasting on the word and orienting my day to the Lord. I've already chosen the most important thing. And I think there's probably spiritual realities there. And I think there's probably also just like practical realities that like I've already like, I've hit the ground running. I've got off the blocks with a good stride. And I'm already thinking in terms of what is most important and what do I need to do? Um, that's, that'd be number one. Number two, just very practically. Um, I have, um, since, um, the advent of smartphones and apps and all the rest of it, um, I have, um, consistently for years, um, I don't have notifications turned on for virtually any of my apps. Um, um, Stuart Amidon (28:27.574) There it is. That's the big secret right there. Toby Sumpter (28:30.572) Um, and, um, so, so for years, uh, the only things that I would get would be texts or phone calls. Um, and then, and then I would say over the last year, uh, somewhere, I can't remember when it was last fall sometime. I actually went, um, and I, I just, um, I turn off all notifications, um, uh, for periods of time, like, like, so I don't even get texts or the old, um, My wife's the only one that can get through. You can go in on an iPhone and you can set exceptions to no notifications. So my wife's the only one that can get through on a text or a call. And everyone else is at the mercy of me noticing. But I've been doing it for six months or more. Stuart Amidon (29:01.415) Nice. Nice. Stuart Amidon (29:06.133) Yeah. Yeah. Stuart Amidon (29:19.477) That's awesome. Toby Sumpter (29:28.396) and I've had no major issues. I think people are always sort of concerned, like, what if I miss something really important? And I've like, you know, like, do I occasionally miss something by an hour? Yeah. But almost always nothing awful has happened in an hour. Stuart Amidon (29:44.216) Right, and if it's a real crisis, they know other ways to get you. Yeah. Toby Sumpter (29:47.308) Yeah, yeah, I mean, everybody's got the office number and people can call the church office and somebody could run down the hallway and grab me. And of course, my wife can get through it anytime. And so but I would say that's been an additional assistance where I, you know, I just don't have it buzzing and beeping and dinging at all. And, and so now it's, it's now doesn't mean that I'm magically not going to be distracted by anything, because I can, I can still I can still pick it up. And, you know, and I can start scrolling or I can start, you know, looking at all of my missed notification, you know, all the things I missed. But that's, that's been a help. And then, and I think, so I think those are two things. And then I think, I think the other last thing I'll just mention is I also really do try to have a full schedule. I think the occasional. Stuart Amidon (30:20.184) Sure. Toby Sumpter (30:44.428) you know, study day or down day or, um, you know, day that's a little bit less packed, you know, I think is, is probably fine. And I know there's some of this may be personality, but, um, I, I work best under pressure. Um, and, and so I generally don't think that I do best with just lots of free time, um, uh, or flex time. And so I, um, I like to have pretty tight hours that, where I've got, okay, you've got 45 minutes and then the next thing I've got one hour and then the next thing that is really helpful for me. And, and, you know, I, I respond well for two deadlines, I've got a deadline, you know, I've got this, I need to turn this, you know, my sermon outline is, they're going to print bulletins every Thursday morning. So I have to send my sermon outline in at the latest Thursday morning. And, and so, you know, I, I'm, Stuart Amidon (31:36.34) You gotta be ready. Toby Sumpter (31:43.5) Things like that I find to be very helpful. And then my evenings and mornings, though, are relatively free. So I work during the day, and then evenings and mornings, I get up early, and I'm not a night owl. I'm usually crashing between nine and 10. But I'm relaxed. In the evenings, I go home and eat dinner, and I hang out with my family. And you know, and if everything's quiet, or all my kids have run off to something and nothing's going on, maybe I'll pick up a book for fun. But I don't generally, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not stressing and straining in the evenings most of the time. Stuart Amidon (32:28.921) Yeah, so what time does Toby Sumpter's alarm go off in the morning? Toby Sumpter (32:33.93) I'll get up at five. Stuart Amidon (32:35.545) Oh, that's not too bad. I was wondering if you were going to say like 3 .30. Toby Sumpter (32:36.812) Yeah. Well, I mean, I've occasionally had it going off between four and four thirty, sometimes more in the winter months when I need to get up and feed the wood stove. But but I'm I get going at five and I find that that is generally I can I sleep really well, but I also like I can only go if I know some people run on like five or six hours of sleep and I'm. Stuart Amidon (32:50.521) Oh, yeah. Toby Sumpter (33:06.284) I can do one or two nights like that and then it starts catching up with me. Stuart Amidon (33:10.104) then it's going to start getting you. Yeah, I understand. So really what we're talking about, I'm just, I want to bring this back through for everybody. So really what we're talking about is fighting to be faithful, regular faithfulness in the little things, and what you're saying and what you've experienced is that will bleed out. that will, that affects everything else you're doing. So, faithfulness in Bible reading better equips you to pastor and shepherd, and better equips you to lead your family. And if your family is in right order, you know, of course the Bible says this too, then that further qualifies and empowers you to lead your church well, and teach and disciple well, and it allows you to take new ventures, because you don't have to worry about anything going off the rails at home, you know, you're able to kind of make investments. And the times when you do, like you said before, have to take two days because you've got a deadline you have to meet, it doesn't shake everybody. Everybody's secure and ready to move forward. That's super helpful. So really, fundamentally, what we're saying is, one of the things that I say very often is it's like concentric circles, right? If you're faithful, with all the things that relate directly to you, right? Then you will have more opportunities for faithfulness, and the next rings out, like your family and your household work and your vocation and your church, and it keeps moving out from there. But you have to hole up on that focus right there. So let's say, okay, let's say there's a guy listening right now, Toby, who is, you know, he has not been faithful. He's like, he's taken on a ton of things to do, he's overstretched, but now he's noticing that his family is in disorder, his personal life's in disorder, he's got all these things going on. What would be your advice to that guy? He's got tons of work going on, but his center circle, his self and his family is suffering. What would you tell a guy like that? Toby Sumpter (35:08.3) Yeah. Well, I would say first of all, yeah, you need to recognize that you will. That can't last. That's to borrow a word from the left. That is not sustainable. You're, you're, you're going to collapse. And so, so what you want to do is you want to, you probably, if you've gotten to this place, you probably need another set of eyes on it, maybe another couple of set of eyes. wisdom is found in the multitude of counselors, set up a meeting with a pastor, set up a meeting with an elder or a couple of older men who have thriving marriages and thriving families. That's their qualification. You want a family like theirs. And I would sit down with them and I would tell them and explain to them what you're seeing. Of course, it's, you know, in a... theoretical situation is hard to know like how rotted out is it. And so in some situations, you're going to need to make some minor cutbacks in your work and projects and start beefing up what you've neglected in your marriage and in your family or in your personal life. And in other situations, you've got to resign like, you know, from five or six things. and really kind of start over. You're gonna have to do a, in some ways kind of have to bulldoze and go back down to the studs in order to rebuild something. But if you don't, everything's gonna collapse. Everything's gonna collapse in the end. And so I think frequently we, I say frequently, men are the kind of people who generally speaking, if, if there's not like smoke pouring out of under the hood of your car, you figure, well, it's, it's, there's nothing wrong. And so, you know, and, and there's, there's certain strengths to that instinct. But there's also certain weaknesses of it. You know, you're, you know, your, your wife says, what's that funny noise? Or I smell something funny. And, and, and our wives and women in general tend to be far more about Stuart Amidon (37:06.685) Right, right, yeah. Toby Sumpter (37:27.82) maintenance, regular maintenance. And that's why they want to connect with you regularly. And they want to have that regular date night and why you need to tell them that you love them regularly and that they're beautiful and, and that you all those things regularly, because that's how they relate to the world. It tends to be more maintenance oriented. We tend to be far more problem and project oriented as, as men, but we, it's not good for us to be alone. We need the reminders of our wives and friends. And so, um, But all that to say, I would just say, you need to get several sets of eyes on the problem. What is the nature of the problem? Is it termites through the whole thing or is it just a little bit of mold and one part of the foundation that you can scrape and bleach and fix? But I would say, don't too often... I think what men are doing is they're doing the math and they say, but I've got this great job. I've got this great legacy. I've got this great thing going. Yeah, my, my wife, my kids, my family's suffering. I've got some problems on the side and they, they do the math wrong. And they, and they think, well, this is just either, this is, this is how it is, or there's nothing I can do. Or if I stop now, I'm going to lose all this. And I think that's a very materialistic and atheistic way to look at your life. Stuart Amidon (38:34.395) Hmm. Toby Sumpter (38:48.192) You live in the world that God made and in God's economy, he blesses men who confess their sins. He blesses men who get clean. He blesses men who love their kids and their wives faithfully. And so don't do the math like a materialist. Don't do your math like a evolutionist. Recognize that you live in God's world and if you go back, it may slow you down for a bit. to repent of some personal sin or make things right and healthy with your wife or make things right and healthy with your kids. But what you will have established is a far more firm foundation. And now what you go then go back to build, you'll have that much more freedom, that much more energy, that much more, most importantly, blessing from God, you'll have God's blessing on what you're doing. And you can, you can build. Stuart Amidon (39:38.813) Mmm. Mmm. Hey, man. Yes. Toby Sumpter (39:44.268) far more and you can get way more done under God's blessing. Stuart Amidon (39:49.565) Yes. Amen. Amen. Thank you so much, Toby. I appreciate you coming on, man. You got any last words of wisdom you want to share with anybody before we kind of close this thing down? Or encouragement? Toby Sumpter (39:54.11) Absolutely. Toby Sumpter (40:00.964) No, and just don't forget about keep Sabbath, you know, work hard, work hard and then gather with God's people and worship and take a day off. Pastor Doug likes to say, Doug Wilson likes to say, you can do more in six days than you can in seven. It's more productive to work your tail off for six days and then rest hard for a day. Stuart Amidon (40:05.724) Amen. Yes. Stuart Amidon (40:20.03) Amen. Toby Sumpter (40:30.582) you're more productive that way. And so learn to work hard and rest hard with God's ratios. Stuart Amidon (40:33.342) Amen. Stuart Amidon (40:41.746) Amen. Amen. Toby, thank you so much for spending your time. Your very valuable and busy time sounds like coming to hang out with us and help us point this thing in the right direction. I appreciate you. And hopefully we can have you back later on before the next TacticsCon 2025 hits. Toby Sumpter (40:56.14) Love to do it Stuart, love what you guys are doing. Stuart Amidon (40:58.335) Thank you, brother. Guys, thank you all so much for joining us for another, or not another, excuse me, the first episode of the Tactics Podcast. You can go to tacticscon .com to find out more information about the conference and you can submit any questions or inquiries that you might have straight to me, Stuart, S -T -U -A -R -T at page 50, P -A -G -E -F -I -F -T -Y .com and I'll be happy to answer them. I hope that you found this encouraging and you got some good strategies out of it and we'll see y 'all next time.

Show Notes

Episode Transcript

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